OR: DC D5: Learning Wing Etiquette
I’m doing my thing and Aaron is doing his. He points out some other ASF guys and I meet them and they tell me they are going somewhere else and ask me to come along. Cool, let me find Aaron again and see what he is doing. So I find Aaron and he is in this 2set.
I do not open either girl. I go to Aaron simply to tell him that I have been invited to go somewhere else and to see if he wants to come. To me, this is social proof – he is not there alone and the girls see that we are part of a larger social circle or at least we run into people we know when we are out.
ANYWAY, Aaron’s girl talks to me without me saying anything to anyone but Aaron. Asks my name. We introduce and the other (yes, the cocky-sharp-alpha girl) starts talking to me. I’m in the set for like three sentences. I’m IGNORING Aaron’s target and I NEG the other girl (Where’s your off button?) who started making fun of my shirt and saying other smart-ass things. Aaron wants to stay there. His target actually says that they should go with me. The alpha girl reminds her that they just got beers, and I’m off with these other guys.
The second venue is $5. It is so RARE that I would ever pay money to socialize, but I was considering it. SO I first ask them to go in and report the crowd. I talk to girls on the street. The guys that just paid $5 come back and tell me that it is lame.
I head back to where Aaron is and there is an incredible line to get in. So I phone him to see how his set is going. He says great. I think, OK, then if they are into you, you should venue change them. I don’t know the city and I’d be happy to go anywhere that doesn’t have a line and a cover charge. AND, since I was here because of him, I didn’t want to split on the first set.
Lesson: When a guy invites me to hang, I will definitely from now on ask his “rules” and his plans and his goals and how we should interact. I think the guy that initiates the outing or the guy with home-turf advantage should state his rules and give the other PUA a chance to compromise if needed. Planning.
Well, Aaron gets them to venue change. Cool. We go across the street. This place has a $7 cover. I’m OUT. Seriously. The dominant and brash girl (note: she is not even considered a target at this point) says “I’ll pay for you, but you better make this up to me.” Like with a serious tone of disgust. The doorman says something like, “Yeah man, you owe her bigtime.” I’m like, “OK I’ll make you dinner.” She says, “You better not mean McDonald’s” and alludes to something that Aaron must have been saying in set. I’m like, “Hope you like Taco Bell.”
But here’s the thing. I hadn’t even realized at the time that this was a pretty big IOI for her to pay my cover. Right? I was actually thinking that her friend must really be into Aaron and she’s just keeping us together because she doesn’t know our driving situation and she is trying not to mess things up for her friend. (Although I will also say this—I had girls buying me drinks and pizza, etc all weekend in DC on their own insistence—this kind of forwardness has not been my experience in the south.)
SO, I check with Aaron to make sure his target is definitely the short girl and he says she is and it looks solid. Cool. We go upstairs and alpha-chick starts moving furniture around and I give her a hand. Aaron sits down with his girl beside him. Then SHE asks me to sit on the other side of her. Oh shit. I sit for a minute and she asks what I do and why I’m in town. I give her brief answers and I’m pretty aloof. I ask her nothing. Then I wander off.
I’m checking this place out and I actually had some seemingly solid interactions I was working in different parts of the place. When I roll back in I sit beside the “stuck up Jewish girl” (who is still not a target) and I listen in for a little bit as Sid is talking to her. She deflects everything he says and the poor guy gets little rapport. I say nothing, talk to Aaron for a bit, and leave to check my other sets.
The next time I return (20 minutes must have passed), the short girl starts talking to me again. I’m being really terse and I say, “Listen my friend is really into you. I think you two are good together and I have to give him space. What’s up with your friend?” She says, “Why, do you like her?” I smile, kind of cock my head, and say, “I haven’t decided yet.” And then this girl gives me a blatant SOI. She says, “I know Aaron likes me, but the problem is, I really like you.” I say, “Nah, you shouldn’t like me. I’m homeless. I sleep in a van. I’m ugly.” Etc, etc.
I left to find Aaron. I’m like, “Dude, how solid do you think this girl is?” Solid man, I got this. “You sure its so solid? Why don’t you get her number and we’ll go find other chicks?” No man, I got this; its on. “You sure bro, number close her, we can do better…” Just give me space man, I got this. OK. Since I knew that my wing’s target was not into him, I should have been more explicit in letting him know. Of course, the common reaction to this scenario is that I never should have entered his set. PERIOD.
So I work my short sets all over the venue. By the time I came back to this set. I sit beside the opinionated-dominant girl and basically call her and her friend on their behavior. I basically read her the Riot Act (with a smile). I say that her friend is just out for attention and validation and she is being way too flirty and she is totally misleading my friend. She says that it is true and she is always like that etc, etc.
Then I tell this girl that she is so vocal in her opinions and comes across with such a strong and feisty personality to mask greater insecurities and weaknesses that she sees in herself. Well, it would certainly be her to admonish me for such statements. Instead, she thinks for a minute and agrees. Instant rapport. She asks if I want a beer and I say sure. (Then I go off to another set.)
I come back and we have our drink and this girl is asking why I was so “cruel and mean” to her at the other venue: By which, she means giving her doses of exactly what she was giving other people. I tell her that she and I are more socially aware and savvy than most people. I remind her that she was condescending to Sid, who is shy and not so socially aware, like us, and that I did not like that she did that. You can spar with me all night, I can take it, but don’t pull that shit on my friend. She apologizes. I also tell her that we are too much alike and that we’ll always butt heads. She qualifies and tries to tell me that we’d get along, etc.
Alessandro calls. I had met this guy for one second earlier in the night. He wants me to come down. I tell him about Aaron and the girls and the beer. He wants me to come down for a minute just to meet him. OK.
What’s funny is that the girl that Aaron was still entertaining is like, “Who is your friend?” I want to meet him!...” Like she was trying to isolate me. Or chomping at the bit for me to isolate her. I said he was my “spiritual advisor” which to me is a throwaway line, but she seemed really intrigued. (Or maybe she was trying to isolate me, as previously noted.) I felt her eyes on me especially now as her friend and I were opening up to each other. Funny thing. At this point I honestly didn’t remember either of their names.
So I go to the balcony and BOTH girls follow me. I holler at Alessandro in the street and when they see him look up, they are both like, “Not that guy! You’re friends with him? I’m not going down there.” I had no idea how or when, but apparently they’d met before. And apparently he left a bad impression.
So I go down and greet. I think he actually pays to come in. But when I start to head back up, the girls are downstairs and the alpha-chick grabs me. I know what this is, so I kiss her. Pull back, kiss, pull back, kiss. I pullback with anti-club-PDA-defense and get her to tell me stories about her first grade kids. She’s got good stories.
The amusing thing is that during this time, I was completely oblivious to whatever rift was going on between Aaron and Alessandro over the other girl. None of them (Aaron, Alessandro, Sid, or the chick) were even in sight. Plus my attention was finally focused on this girl as she had earned it.
Naturally, I’m remembering the SOI from the other girl and I’m thinking threesome potential. I find out their living situation and test this girl for bisexual tendencies. They are there. And she sees where I am leading, but pulls herself out because this is her “best friend.” Ok, we’ll find someone else, I tell her. She insists that she alone is more than I can handle.
The other girl comes to find me and somehow I get isolated with her inside the bar. She says she can’t believe that I made out with her best friend after she told me that she liked me. I reminded her that I was looking out for Aaron and I wasn’t going to move in on his girl. She’s like, “But I’d still be your first choice, right?” I say I don’t know and I move in and kiss her slowly and passionately. I pull back and say, “You’re trouble.” We talk a bit and we have no idea where anyone else is. We finally find her friend and Sid outside. Aaron is apparently long gone, and I feel guilty, even though Alessandro is the one that “stole” the girl if anyone wants to see it as a steal.
I suggest we afterbar and I’m trying to code Sid to move in on shortie. I know he hadn’t a chance, but I’m trying to get her occupied while I reengage the girl that I made out with first. Anyway, alpha girl is trying to code the other to ask if she kissed me. The girl says nothing and she is all smiles. Finally the girl straight asks her and she says NO. I’m talking to Sid about something unrelated like I don’t know what’s going on. Then she asks me if we kissed and I say YES and I divert the attention off of me by whispering. “I bet she denied it, huh? That’s so like her, just soaking up attention and just having fun. But you’re different, you’re genuine and real. And a better kisser.” So she’s back in.
Then Alessandro rolls in and starts gaming the short girl. This is the first interaction I’ve seen of his. I’m thinking -- does this guy actually pull women? So he does his high-energy street twirls and shit and wants to take us to somewhere. That’s cool. But we have to take Sid. Of course he was telling me to ditch him in an uncool and blatant way.
But I’m way too nice. Turns out that Sid was, in all honesty, was the biggest hindrance in the end. It’s not worth mentioning in detail. But there come a point where you have to realize that you are not part of the interaction. You’re not a participant and it makes absolutely no sense to be an observer. We are all independent and self-reliant and we have to exercise our ability to walk away and not sabotage things for others. Sorry, bro.
So the short flirty girl that everyone was after tried to sabotage shit too. My dumb-ass was still trying to flirt with her too. Like if I couldn’t pull a threesome, I actually thought I would fuck the stuck-up Jew girl tonight and fuck the other girl on a day two. (Oh yeah, when the short flirty girl isolated me back at the club, we planned a day two. Haha.)
Anyway, you won’t believe what happened with her. All parties involved will surely kick themselves. It was actually my girl’s idea as she was getting damned pissed that we were still flirting with each other. Shifty bitches, man.
Get this: She sets her up with another guy on the street! Some tall muscular motherfucker wearing a tight t-shirt walking his dog. You’d think he was a fag (we all did). Anyway, in looks, this fag has us all beat to death. I guess he just walks his dog at closing time and all the horny bitches that get worked up by three ASFers just swoon over him. Fool’s mate.
Anyway, I contributed the above post as part of an ongoing and energetic thread about community cockblocking. My take on the night was not even the first in the thread. Briefly:
The next day, Aaron writes a reminder to Alessandro to not enter and intentionally blow a guy out of set and steal girls from him. Alessandro then writes a lengthy FR describing how I ended up with the two chicks. Some other guys chime in with the “wing rules” (new to me), the gist of which is:
GOLDEN RULE #1: join a set only if PUA1 invites you IN!
GOLDEN RULE #2: if you think you want to help read rule #1
A: if PUA1 is talking to a lone wolf, LEAVE HIM ALONE
B: if the PUA1 is talking to a 3 or more people, LEAVE HIM ALONE
C: in the event PUA1 is talking to a 2set AND UG is getting bored,then you have the option to go IN. If you decide to go IN, you canonly do it with: -enter and disregard the girls (they do not exist until PUA1introduces them to you). Disregard means no talking, no touching, nolooking at the girls. -greed your friend PUA1: "Hey, what's up?" -ask PUA1 a random question, example: "have you seen John?"
I submit the above post. Aaron commends me for providing “clarity and closure” and that he enjoyed meeting me and had no issue with me. Cool.
Next I got a small piece of advice. I should not have acted as a marketer for Aaron. That lowers his vale and my self-depreciation raised mine. Better to have said “"Ah, my buddy is such a flirt... you know he's just playing with you right? You're totally not his type." Cool, I see the psychology there. Lesson learned.
Alessandro sums the thread up with “I personally have a memory depth of about 12 hours as far as game is concerned. There is so much fish in the pond, it doesn't even make sense to fight over an empty tuna can. If you want a feel-good emotional support group, go ahead, find like-minded people in here and by all means feel good together, but don't bother me.”
But then EVERYONE else has an opinion. Some guys got a feel for my perspective on the interaction. Like how circumstances change and your thoughts and motives change as time progresses. And how a lot of what I do is kinda random and blissfully naïve (read other posts here).
Other guys gave me way too much credit as an experienced and skilled PUA—-in fact a manipulative and unethical and ruthless PUA. One who intentionally “tooled” Aaron and sabotaged his set and acted like a kid in a candy store.
But Ferrari’s initial analysis of my initial post really opened my eyes to some of the things that I did unintentionally to create such a strong attraction in the beginning. More importantly, he set me straight on how to consciously behave with a wing to not appear outrageous and unacceptable. I asked his approval to post his response.